Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/28/1999 08:07 AM House URS

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
  HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON UTILITY RESTRUCTURING                                                                              
                   April 28, 1999                                                                                               
                     8:07 a.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bill Hudson, Chairman                                                                                            
Representative John Cowdery, Vice Chairman                                                                                      
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Brian Porter                                                                                                     
Representative John Davies                                                                                                      
Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                                                                  
Representative Joe Green (alternate)                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 81                                                                                                               
"An Act relating to the provision of electric service in the state;                                                             
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
* HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 10                                                                                            
Proposing recommendations concerning the sale of the Four Dam Pool                                                              
hydroelectric facilities.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHCR 10 (URS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
* HOUSE BILL NO. 174                                                                                                            
"An Act relating to personal services contracts for certain                                                                     
employees of electric cooperatives."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 185                                                                                                              
"An Act exempting certain small water utilities from regulation by                                                              
the Alaska Public Utilities Commission."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
* HOUSE BILL NO. 169                                                                                                            
"An Act relating to including the costs of expansion activities and                                                             
political activities in rates of electric cooperatives."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
(* First public hearing)                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  81                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHORT TITLE: ELECTRIC CONSUMER'S BILL OF RIGHTS                                                                                 
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) ROKEBERG, Dyson                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/05/99       144     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/05/99       144     (H)  URS, L&C                                                                                            
 2/16/99       228     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): DYSON                                                                                 
 4/21/99               (H)  URS AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 4/21/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/23/99               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 4/23/99               (H)  <BILL POSTPONED TO 4/30>                                                                            
 4/28/99               (H)  URS AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HCR 10                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: SALE OF FOUR DAM POOL                                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) AUSTERMAN, Harris, Grussendorf                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 4/22/99       914     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 4/22/99       914     (H)  URS, FIN                                                                                            
 4/28/99               (H)  URS AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 174                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT                                                                           
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) SANDERS                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 3/31/99       628     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 3/31/99       628     (H)  URS, L&C                                                                                            
 4/28/99               (H)  URS AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 185                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: SMALL WATER UTILITIES EXEMPT FROM APUC                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) OGAN                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 4/09/99       702     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 4/09/99       703     (H)  URS, L&C                                                                                            
 4/21/99               (H)  URS AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 4/21/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/28/99               (H)  URS AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 169                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: ELEC.COOPS:EXPANSION & POLITICAL ACTIVITY                                                                          
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) GREEN                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 3/31/99       625     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 3/31/99       625     (H)  URS, L&C                                                                                            
 4/28/99               (H)  URS AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JANET SEITZ, Legislative Assistant                                                                                              
   for Representative Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 24                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-4968                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced the committee substitute for HB 81.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ERIC YOULD, Executive Director                                                                                                  
Alaska Rural Electric Cooperative Association (ARECA)                                                                           
703 West Tudor Road                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska  99503                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 463-3636                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 81 and HB 174.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT MAXWELL                                                                                                                  
126 Boaters Lane                                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 479-0592                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 81.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MARY ANN PEASE                                                                                                                  
Aurora Power Resources, Incorporated                                                                                            
310 K Street, Number 601                                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 277-1003                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 81.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MEERA KOHLER, General Manager                                                                                                   
Municipal Light and Power (ML&P)                                                                                                
1200 East First Avenue                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 263-5202                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 81.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT WILKINSON, Chief Executive Officer                                                                                       
Copper Valley Electric Association (CVEA)                                                                                       
Box 45                                                                                                                          
Glennallen, Alaska  99588                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 822-8340                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 81.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
RANDY CORNELIUS, Director                                                                                                       
Electric Utility, Sitka City and Borough                                                                                        
P.O. Box 1253                                                                                                                   
Sitka, Alaska  99835                                                                                                            
Telephone:  (907)  747-2661                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 81.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PAUL MORRISON                                                                                                                   
1016 West Sixth Avenue, Number 400                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 269-6222                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 81.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CLIFF STONE, Legislative Assistant                                                                                              
   for Representative Austerman                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 434                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-2487                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HCR 10.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ED KOZAK, General Manager                                                                                                       
Kodiak Electric Association                                                                                                     
515 Marine Way                                                                                                                  
Kodiak, Alaska  99615                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 486-7700                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HCR 10.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
BOB EVANS, Lobbyist                                                                                                             
   for Copper Valley Electric Association and Four Dam Pool                                                                     
227 Fourth Street                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 586-6252                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HCR 10.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD TRIMBLE, Alternate Representative                                                                                       
Project Management Committee                                                                                                    
Four Dam Pool;                                                                                                                  
Power Project Manager, Ketchikan Public Utilities (KPU)                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD BURKE, Legislative Administrative Assistant                                                                              
   for Representative Sanders                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 414                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-4945                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 174.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-19, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON called the House Special Committee on Utility                                                              
Restructuring meeting to order at 8:07 a.m.  Members present at the                                                             
call to order were Representatives Hudson, Cowdery, Kott, Rokeberg,                                                             
Porter, Berkowitz and Green (alternate).  Representative Davies                                                                 
arrived at 8:12 a.m.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HB 81 - ELECTRIC CONSUMER'S BILL OF RIGHTS                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced that the first order of business was                                                                  
House Bill No. 81, "An Act relating to the provision of electric                                                                
service in the state; and providing for an effective date."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0143                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG made a motion to adopt the proposed                                                                     
committee substitute for HB 81, version 1-LS0181\G, Cramer,                                                                     
4/26/99, as a work draft.  There being no objection, Version G was                                                              
before the committee.  He indicated that the committee substitute                                                               
includes the suggestions by Karl Rabago of CH2M Hill and the                                                                    
recommendations by Representative Davies.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JANET SEITZ, Legislative Assistant for Representative Rokeberg,                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature, explained that on page 1 the title has                                                                
been tightened up as the committee requested.  On page 2, lines 7                                                               
through 20 there is new language about free basic information and                                                               
reasonably priced additional information to be granted to the                                                                   
consumer, which was a suggestion by Mr. Rabago and Representative                                                               
Davies.  On page 2, lines 24 and 25 there is a language change to                                                               
take out "without discrimination", which was suggested by Mr. Conn                                                              
of Alaska Public Interest Research Group (AKPIRG).  On page 2, line                                                             
28 after "confidential records" through page 3, line 7, there was                                                               
some language added by the request of Representative Davies to make                                                             
it clear that a regulated and unregulated component of an entity                                                                
must keep customer records confidential unless there is a written                                                               
request by the consumer to share information.  On page 3, line 22                                                               
after "certification", Representative Davies requested that "these                                                              
standards must explicitly provide for reliable and safe electrical                                                              
power" be added.  On page 3, beginning on line 28 after                                                                         
"generation" through page 4, line 10, is all new language.  The                                                                 
first part on page 3 of subsection (e) concerns the consumer bill                                                               
and Mr. Rabago had suggested language that if an aggregator wanted                                                              
to get some information on the bill it should be without undue                                                                  
process and non-discriminatory rates.  In subsection (f) there is                                                               
the slamming provision that indicates that a costumers electrical                                                               
service provider may only be changed with the written authorization                                                             
of the customer, which she believes was Mr. Conn's concern.  In                                                                 
subsection (g) there is Mr. Rabago's suggestion on requiring                                                                    
certain reports from electric service providers.  In subsection (h)                                                             
there is the definition of competitive electric service market,                                                                 
which was discussed in the committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY referred to page 3, line 23, where it talks                                                              
about "reliable and safe electrical power."  He wondered how that                                                               
is defined.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. SEITZ indicated that she does not have a definition of                                                                      
"reliable and safe electrical power."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY pointed out the purpose of his question is                                                               
that sometimes in rural areas it is less reliable than in non-rural                                                             
areas.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0545                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES explained that it is a policy that they are                                                               
setting and something that can be dealt with in the practical                                                                   
application of the regulations.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG agreed with Representative Davies, in that,                                                             
reliability and safety standards are elements that need to be                                                                   
considered when providing service to a service area.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated that it is an absolute and an absolute                                                             
cannot be guaranteed, so there needs to be a qualifier.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that in that subsection the                                                                 
commission is to adopt the regulations.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0620                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER reiterated that they do not want an absolute                                                              
in statute.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON indicated that when the committee talked about HB
81 last time, he felt that reliability should be put in as well.                                                                
He asked Representative Rokeberg if they have been instructed by                                                                
Mr. Rabago.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that it was a suggestion by                                                                 
Representative Davies.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES recommended that they add some reference to                                                               
generally accepted industry standards.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Representative Davies if he wanted to move                                                                
the amendment.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0780                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES made a motion to adopt the conceptual                                                                     
amendment, "line 23, after the word power, insert, that meets                                                                   
generally accepted industry standards."  There being no objection,                                                              
the conceptual amendment was adopted.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated that the bill is premature, because                                                               
it anticipates competition.  He does not believe that the committee                                                             
has decided to go with competition yet.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ pointed out that Representative Cowdery                                                                
should have supported his amendment last week to remove                                                                         
"competitive," because HB 81 is really about a general consumer                                                                 
protection issue.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON wondered if he means as opposed to leading to                                                                   
competitiveness.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ explained that that way when markets                                                                   
emerge that are competitive they have already complied.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0938                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that the design of HB 81 is that it                                                              
is intended to be "trip wired" by the implementation of any                                                                     
competitive electrical service in the state.  He doesn't believe                                                                
that it is necessarily appropriate given the work load and the                                                                  
situation the Alaska Public Utilities Commission (APUC) is in right                                                             
now to have them come up with a bunch of new regulation when the                                                                
committee is potentially on the verge of shifting their focus to                                                                
some type of restructuring.  He recalls the testimony regarding the                                                             
ability of the APUC currently, particularly in the form of the                                                                  
docket that is before the APUC from Aurora Power that would act as                                                              
an aggregator and, therefore, a "trip wire" in order for HB 81 to                                                               
take effect.  The regulations that would be provided in this                                                                    
legislation would have to be undertaken and drafted concurrently                                                                
with that docket.  He said that the legislation is not intended to                                                              
force that; it is trying to be anticipatory in that regard.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1029                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES indicated that the task force did find that                                                               
competition could be shown to benefit the consumers.  Further, they                                                             
have found that the APUC does have the power to grant competition                                                               
in certain areas.  The last point is that it would be appropriate                                                               
to have HB 81 in place before the pilot project in Anchorage takes                                                              
place.  He said that for those reasons he feels that HB 81 is not                                                               
premature.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated that the committee should decide                                                               
what the competition issue is.  He still feels that HB 81 is a                                                                  
little premature.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ERIC YOULD, Executive Director, Alaska Rural Electric Cooperative                                                               
Association (ARECA), stated that his utility members have had a                                                                 
chance to review HB 81 and they are generally in favor of the                                                                   
legislation, with certain caveats.  He indicated that there is some                                                             
reluctants to the bill, in that, it is a bit premature.  On the                                                                 
other hand, he believes that Representative Davies argument is                                                                  
valid as well.  The only real objection to HB 81 is that it may                                                                 
coopt utilities that are not presently subject to economic                                                                      
regulation.  The way that the bill is written it implies that many                                                              
of the provisions of the APUC would be imposed on those utilities.                                                              
He recommended that there be an amendment to HB 81 so the utilities                                                             
would not become coopted into economic regulation.  He referred to                                                              
page 1, on line 6, where it states, "The commission shall establish                                                             
by regulation," they would include the language, "for those                                                                     
utilities subject to economic regulation by the APUC."  On page 4,                                                              
they would add a subsection (i), which would state, "Nothing in                                                                 
this section would result in a utility becoming subject to economic                                                             
regulation by the APUC."  In other words, those that are legally                                                                
required to be economically regulated would remain regulated, but                                                               
those that are not required to be regulated would not be regulated                                                              
as a result of the statute.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1333                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES wondered exactly what the term "economical                                                                
regulation" implies in a competitive market place.  Presumably,                                                                 
even deregulated utilities would be subject to some minor forms of                                                              
economic regulation.  He wondered how that terminology would apply                                                              
in that context.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD explained that what is being discussed is a definition of                                                             
"regulation."  If the committee decides that they want the electric                                                             
utility industry to be regulated even in a minor way the additional                                                             
regulations and re-regulation statutes will be adopted, which will                                                              
coopt what the committee has before them presently.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG expressed concern about the effect of the                                                               
regulatory environment if the regulation is adopted.  It seems that                                                             
it would be an incentive for those utilities that were concerned                                                                
about this to endeavor to opt out.  He wondered how the utilities                                                               
that had opted out would be able to react to the competitive                                                                    
environment without the regulatory underpinning.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD asked, "Can you imagine a utility trying to go to its                                                                 
membership saying, We need a two-thirds vote to get out of economic                                                             
regulation, so that you don't have access to the consumer bill of                                                               
rights."  He indicated that his utilities are in favor of HB 81 and                                                             
it's not because of an opportunity to opt out of the APUC.  He                                                                  
believes that there is no problem in ensuring that there are                                                                    
certain stipulations and standards that the utility industry needs                                                              
to meet under a competitive market, but that doesn't mean they have                                                             
to be under economic regulation.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that they have had some testimony                                                                
from Mr. Wilkinson of the Copper Valley Electric Association (CVEA)                                                             
and he indicated that it was not HB 81, but the whole idea of                                                                   
deregulation caused CVEA's consumers to decide to opt out.  He                                                                  
pointed out that it seems to be a circumstance that goes against                                                                
the grain of what Mr. Yould just said.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD stated, "Quite to the contrary."  He said that they view                                                              
that as allowing a utility the flexibility to fully compete in a                                                                
deregulated industry.  For instance, if the utilities have to run                                                               
back to the APUC every time they want a rate change, to compete                                                                 
with an aggregator that has come into their service territory, then                                                             
they don't have the flexibility to truly compete.  What the                                                                     
utilities are really trying to do is get out from the APUC                                                                      
jurisdiction so that they can change their rates in the event that                                                              
an aggregator or "cherry picker" comes into their service territory                                                             
and tries to take a customer away.  It actually works in favor of                                                               
customer choice, because if somebody comes in and wants to take                                                                 
their customers they want to be able to go straight to that                                                                     
customer and give him a better deal.  He thinks that getting out of                                                             
regulation is a step toward getting out of an unstructured market.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1568                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Yould if he would restate the                                                                   
concern of his members.  He feels that the bill doesn't focus on                                                                
the provider, but on the consumer.  It defines a competitive                                                                    
electric service market, and that is when consumers are offered a                                                               
choice.  He pointed out that if a provider of any strife is                                                                     
operating in a competitive market then consumers should be afforded                                                             
those kind of protections.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1619                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD indicated that the concern is in order for the APUC to                                                                
exercise its jurisdiction on a utility that presently is not                                                                    
subject to jurisdiction they are going to start requiring many                                                                  
things out of that utility perhaps having to do with rate and                                                                   
contracts that allows the APUC to exercise its jurisdiction.                                                                    
Therefore, in a backdoor way the utilities are going to become                                                                  
subject to regulation just through the process of trying to enforce                                                             
the statute.  He added that the committee should consider reviewing                                                             
Mr. Wilkinson's testimony given in the previous meeting.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered how many members feel that the bill                                                               
is premature.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD stated that there was that general feeling that it may be                                                             
premature, but weighed against that is that they are technically in                                                             
a deregulated market.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1734                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT MAXWELL testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He                                                                 
indicated that he only has the original version of HB 81 and,                                                                   
therefore, his comments will be truncated.  He referred to Section                                                              
1, subsection (5), of the original bill where it states, "penalties                                                             
for electric service providers operating in a competitive electric                                                              
service market who fail to comply with the requirements of this                                                                 
chapter."  He stated that he would prefer to see some language that                                                             
would say, "substantial penalties."  He explained that in the lower                                                             
48 the penalties have not been substantial enough and people will                                                               
go ahead and circumvent regulations in order to make a profit.  He                                                              
referred to Section 1, subsection (7), of the original bill where                                                               
it states, "refrain from imposing unreasonable terms and conditions                                                             
as a precondition to providing service to a consumer in a                                                                       
competitive electric service market."  He stated that he likes that                                                             
language and would like to see that there are not unreasonable                                                                  
disconnect and reconnect fees attached to consumers that may have                                                               
problems paying their bills.  He believes that it could put lower                                                               
income folks into a cycle that they could never get out of.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON pointed out that version G of HB 81 was faxed to                                                                
them.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1851                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARY ANN PEASE, Aurora Power Resources, Incorporated, testified via                                                             
teleconference from Anchorage.  She indicated that she sent in four                                                             
pages of written testimony and was not going to reiterate what she                                                              
presented in that testimony, but she added that they are supportive                                                             
of HB 81.  They feel that the electric consumer's bill of rights is                                                             
an appropriate first step towards deregulation.  She referred to                                                                
the comments of Mr. Yould and stated that she finds it interesting                                                              
that they are considering adding language to the bill to opt out of                                                             
economic regulation, so that the utilities could be more able to                                                                
deal with competitive pricing.  She pointed out that this goes back                                                             
to the argument that she has made several times, which is that when                                                             
ever possible market based rates are much better than regulated                                                                 
based rates.  If the utilities need the option of opting out of                                                                 
economic regulation so they can compete, it says that there is                                                                  
something left on the table.  She explained that what they need to                                                              
look at is moving forward towards a deregulated utility environment                                                             
where prices are based on the market rather than on regulation.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1918                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEERA KOHLER, General Manager, Municipal Light and Power (ML&P),                                                                
testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  She indicated that                                                                
she sent in three pages of written testimony.  She expressed the                                                                
support of ML&P for the context of HB 81.  They believe that                                                                    
Representative Rokeberg has done a good job with protecting the                                                                 
interests of the consumers and that consumer protection is a matter                                                             
of central and critical importance in any effort to restructure the                                                             
electric utility industry.  She noted that in the CH2M Hill study                                                               
they state that misdirected restructuring efforts can impact                                                                    
consumers adversely in terms of availability, cost and reliability                                                              
of electric power.  HB 81 begins the process of ensuring that as                                                                
restructuring moves forward the consumer's interests are not left                                                               
behind, subjugated to the inequities of the marketplace.  She                                                                   
indicated that they have four suggestion.  One, although critical                                                               
components in the restructuring equation, the provisions of HB 81                                                               
do not address all the elements which the commission must address                                                               
to successfully investigate electric restructuring.  This fact is                                                               
made clear by the CH2M Hill, which outlines the broad array of                                                                  
matters, including those in HB 81, which require examination.  ML&P                                                             
recommends that under the proposed Section 42.05.226(a) be amended                                                              
to read:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     *Sec. 42.05.226.  Electric consumer protections.  (a) As part                                                              
     of any general proceeding or proceedings to investigate                                                                    
     electric industry restructuring, the Commission shall                                                                      
     establish by regulation [etc.]                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Two, at least one would-be electric service provider has already                                                                
asserted that it is not subject to the jurisdictional powers of the                                                             
commission concerning utility service provisioning.  The proposed                                                               
legislation uses various terms at various points, for example,                                                                  
"electric service providers," "electric suppliers, aggregators, and                                                             
distributors" and "supplier or an aggregator."  ML&P suggests that                                                              
they the phrase "electric service supplier" be uniformly utilized                                                               
throughout the proposed legislation and that the following                                                                      
amendment be added to Section 1:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     (f) For purposes of this section, "electric service provider"                                                              
     shall mean any person or entity, including but not limited to                                                              
     a utility, a broker, a marketer, a wholesaler, or an                                                                       
     aggregator, seeking to provide or providing electric service                                                               
     to the public or any portion thereof, whether for compensation                                                             
     or otherwise.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Three, the experience in telecommunications restructuring, as well                                                              
as in those few jurisdictions which have undertaken electric                                                                    
restructuring, clearly demonstrates that more consumer data is not                                                              
the same thing as more consumer information.  CH2M has noted in                                                                 
there study, "Equipping all customers with the education and                                                                    
technological capacity to fully participate in markets                                                                          
characterized by changing hourly electricity costs could easily                                                                 
overwhelm any savings likely to result from the introduction of                                                                 
competition into the industry."  She stated that while ML&P does                                                                
not disagree with the direction of the draft provisions, they                                                                   
believe that any legislative intent accompanying HB 81 should make                                                              
clear that the goal of the legislation here is clarity, not volume                                                              
of information, and that the cost of such information are                                                                       
recoverable from the rates charged to consumer.  Four, ML&P has                                                                 
received a copy of CH2M Hill's comments on HB 81, addressing five                                                               
numbered items.  ML&P believes that items 4 and 5 in those comments                                                             
deal more with competition and competitive structures than with                                                                 
consumer protection, and are neither properly nor effectively                                                                   
addressed by minor amendments to HB 81.  Competition produces                                                                   
benefits where it promotes reduced costs of service.  In seeking to                                                             
inject issues concerning "customer proprietary network information"                                                             
and access to billing and other "back office" support systems, CH2M                                                             
Hill's comments open very broad topics with implications far beyond                                                             
consumer protection.  She added that consumer protection is an                                                                  
important piece, but only one piece of the puzzle.  The other                                                                   
parts, requiring 15 pages of summarized "recommendations" in the                                                                
study, also require thoughtful attention in the manner proposed by                                                              
the study.  ML&P supports the CH2M Hill study concept of methodical                                                             
investigation and implementation of the issues.  The approach                                                                   
suggests that the competitive issues be reserved for separate                                                                   
commission and legislative actions, and not be lightly injected                                                                 
into an otherwise sound piece of legislation on a different                                                                     
subject.  ML&P appreciates the opportunity to provide there                                                                     
comments and recommendations and wants to support the committee and                                                             
sponsors of HB 81.  She pointed out that electric cooperatives are                                                              
allowed to exempt themselves from economic regulation by the APUC                                                               
per action that was taken in 1980; therefore, she believes that                                                                 
when Mr. Yould was speaking to that process he was actually                                                                     
referring to an old piece of legislation.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2235                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT WILKINSON, Chief Executive Officer, Copper Valley Electric                                                               
Association (CVEA), indicated that he did send in written                                                                       
testimony, so his comments will be brief.  CVEA's concern with the                                                              
bill is specifically with the definition of a "competitive electric                                                             
service market," and they believe currently with the issue of                                                                   
public power in rural Alaska that the definition is somewhat broad.                                                             
As the committee and the state of Alaska go down the trail of                                                                   
industry restructuring, they feel that the more prudent course of                                                               
action would be to move in small steps rather than open things wide                                                             
open, which they feel is what HB 81 does.  He explained that with                                                               
respect to CVEA's decision to conduct a local regulation campaign                                                               
last year, in which there was a two-thirds vote to do so, their                                                                 
motivation was to prepare themselves to do business in a                                                                        
competitive environment.  The mission of CVEA is to be the energy                                                               
services provider of choice, which requires them to be the low cost                                                             
provider.  That is how they beat the competition a couple years ago                                                             
that was attempting to "cherry pick" some customers, and that is                                                                
how they intent to do it in the future.  CVEA believes that the                                                                 
language in HB 81 needs to be tightened up.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2335                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Wilkinson if he has any suggestions                                                             
on how to tighten the language in the bill.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILKINSON pointed out that Mr. Yould made some                                                                   
suggestions early.  He indicated that he hasn't really given it any                                                             
thought, but that he can make some suggestions and send them to the                                                             
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER wondered if the tightening up that Mr.                                                                    
Wilkinson is referring to has to do with the definition of                                                                      
"competitive electric service market."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKINSON responded correct.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that he was unsure what the thrust                                                               
was behind tightening up.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2393                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKINSON explained that with the overall restructuring issue                                                               
and the questions that were raised by the CH2M Hill study that                                                                  
there are many unresolved issue.  They feel that by opening                                                                     
competition across the state is premature at this time.  They                                                                   
propose that the definition be tightened up, so if the intent of                                                                
the committee is to have competition in the interconnected area of                                                              
the Railbelt, then HB 81 should reflect that.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Wilkinson if the committee and                                                                
any bills on restructuring built a Chinese Wall around the Railbelt                                                             
if that would make him happy.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKINSON indicated that he was not sure how to answer that                                                                 
question.  He stated that it would make him happy for a short                                                                   
period of time, until more of the questions of the CH2M Hill study                                                              
are answered.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2453                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RANDY CORNELIUS, Director, Electric Utility, Sitka City and                                                                     
Borough, testified via teleconference from Sitka.  He pointed out                                                               
that the City and Borough of Sitka has been concerned about the                                                                 
customer all along and he believes that HB 81 is trying to address                                                              
that.  The only comment is that they feel it brings them under the                                                              
jurisdiction of the APUC.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-19, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2473                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CORNELIUS stated that if HB 81 brings them under the APUC, they                                                             
will end up being regulated by two regulators.  He believes that                                                                
they need to take small steps for the municipalities to start                                                                   
breaking out from underneath assembly jurisdiction and either go                                                                
into the APUC or drop APUC.  He pointed out that it should be one                                                               
way or the other, but it is unfair to have them under two                                                                       
regulators and it would be difficult for them to compete like that                                                              
in a marketplace.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated that there are different ways in which                                                             
utilities are under regulation by the APUC.  All utilities in the                                                               
state are under regulation by the APUC in terms of their territory,                                                             
and some utilities get to opt out in terms of economic regulation.                                                              
He believes that HB 81 would say that all utilities who choose to                                                               
provide competitive retail service will be affected, and the                                                                    
details of economic regulation would not matter.  HB 81 is not                                                                  
intended to affect the decision of whether a utility opts in or                                                                 
out, but no matter what choice they have made, if they are offering                                                             
competitive retail service, they will be affected by HB 81.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2382                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG indicated that it seems that the APUC can                                                               
grant the certification for a service area.  He stated that he is                                                               
concerned about the present circumstances, because if somebody                                                                  
wanted to compete they would have to get the approval by the APUC                                                               
to enter into a service area and then be regulated perhaps by the                                                               
local assembly or city council if they were in an opt out                                                                       
situation.  He wondered if the tariff setting and the competition                                                               
would be regulated by the local governing body after the APUC                                                                   
granted permission to enter the area.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2286                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD said that he would tend to agree that it could overlay                                                                
both subsets; regulated and non-regulated.  The intent is to make                                                               
sure that those that opted out of regulation or were not intended                                                               
to be under regulation are not drug into regulation.  As APUC is                                                                
presently funded through the regulatory cost charge, which is a                                                                 
charge that is applied to those that are regulated, and on a case                                                               
by case basis, those that are unregulated, but have to come in for                                                              
a hearing.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG indicated that the circumstance has not                                                                 
happened yet, but it could.  He wondered if his statement was true                                                              
that the APUC would have to grant the ability of a competitor to go                                                             
into a non-economically regulated area in the first instance,                                                                   
because of the service area certification.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD said yes, because of the service area certification.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if once the end of the area the local                                                             
governing body would have economic regulation.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD said that they could come back and impose their right                                                                 
through the APUC to that exclusive service territory, but they                                                                  
would not be subject to economic regulation.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG indicated that the legislation would be                                                                 
forced on non-economically regulated opted out utilities the way                                                                
the bill is written presently.  He wondered what happens if they                                                                
are already opted out, for example Copper Valley, and the APUC                                                                  
granted somebody certification to go in there and compete with                                                                  
them.  He asked who is going to regulate the economic regulation.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD stated that he thinks that the economic regulation is                                                                 
imposed on top of Copper Valley whether somebody is trying to get                                                               
into their service territory or not.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG wondered if it is an automatic opt in if                                                                
there is an additional certificate granted.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD replied no.  He stated that they are trying to make sure                                                              
that it doesn't happen.  For example, that Copper Valley, just by                                                               
somebody coming into their service territory, and hence becoming                                                                
subject to the consumer bill of rights, doesn't become subject to                                                               
economic regulation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2228                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PAUL MORRISON testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  He                                                                  
stated that he believes the current statute has it so that if there                                                             
is competition in the field they are required to become regulated                                                               
by the APUC.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR YOULD indicated that the concern with HB 81 is that it implies                                                               
that competition is allowed in areas that have opted out of                                                                     
economic regulation, and then they get coopted into economic                                                                    
regulation, which is what they are trying to keep from happening.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated that HB 81 is merely establishing the                                                              
basic ground rules under which consumers would be protected.  He                                                                
explained that there are several other steps that have to happen                                                                
before there is competition.  He pointed out that it seems bizarre                                                              
that the APUC would establish a set of regulations that would open                                                              
up a service area to competition, and then in the course of that                                                                
require that somebody already there come under economic regulation.                                                             
He stated that they distinguish the two different kinds of                                                                      
regulation.  Utilities in the state, even in a free and open                                                                    
marketplace, are going to be regulated by the APUC, but in terms of                                                             
economic regulation that is exactly the opposite of retail                                                                      
competition.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ explained that HB 81 is not intended for                                                               
the benefit of the providers, the suppliers or the distributors.                                                                
It is really for the benefit of the consumers.  He expressed                                                                    
appreciation for the anxt that everyone has exhibited, but it isn't                                                             
the point of what HB 81 is all about.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2120                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER agreed with Representative Davies.  He stated                                                             
that if it is the case, which he is suggesting by inference and it                                                              
is ridiculous, then the economic regulation would be done by the                                                                
board of the competitor of the electric service coming in.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that the whole issue is being                                                               
opened up, and it is hard not to consider alot of things when                                                                   
discussing it.  He thinks that a considerable look needs to be                                                                  
taken, although there is a need to have the legislation this year.                                                              
In response to what Representative Davies said about not                                                                        
understanding how there could be economic regulation, in other                                                                  
states where they have deregulation there is the institution of a                                                               
service credit where the regulators come in there and mandate a                                                                 
reduction in their rate.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES indicated that is not economic regulation,                                                                
but is meant to recover stranded costs.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that the idea is to lower the                                                                    
affordability level to make a reduction to consumers.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated that maybe he misunderstood.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG explained that in other states they have                                                                
legislatively mandated a reduction in the rates and the surcharge                                                               
comes back to recover the stranded cost.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1975                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced that HB 81 would be held over until the                                                               
next meeting.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HCR 10 - SALE OF FOUR DAM POOL                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced that the next order of business was House                                                             
Concurrent Resolution No. 10, proposing recommendations concerning                                                              
the sale of the Four Dam Pool hydroelectric facilities.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1926                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CLIFF STONE, Legislative Assistant for Representative Austerman,                                                                
Alaska State Legislature, stated that the adoption of HCR 10 will                                                               
request the Alaska Energy Authority (AEA) to divest itself of its                                                               
interest in the Four Dam Pool.  These projects were constructed in                                                              
the mid-1980s and they served the communities of Copper Center,                                                                 
Glennallen, Ketchikan, Kodiak, Petersburg, Port Lions, Valdez and                                                               
Wrangell.  Representative Austerman took HCR 16 and used it as a                                                                
template to construct HCR 10.  The wording, "fair market value,"                                                                
has been subject to some question; can we really expect this to go                                                              
out to the market in the form of a request for proposals (RFP) and                                                              
will it be open to just those communities listed or will people be                                                              
given the opportunity to bid on this RFP?                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1812                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ noted, "The Sitka wildflower has cropped                                                               
up amongst the devils club again on this sponsor sheet."  He                                                                    
wondered how much money will go into the general fund on account of                                                             
the sale when the dust settles.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN responded that a lot of numbers have been                                                              
thrown around.  The question is, what is the fair market value?  He                                                             
said that he would love to see $125 million go into the general                                                                 
fund, but he has heard numbers a lot lower than that, so it is                                                                  
anyone's guess.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said that when the issue was dealt with last                                                              
there was a major concern with the term, "commitment of the price."                                                             
He asked the committee if they remembered something of that nature.                                                             
He indicated that in the construction of the dams, he believes                                                                  
there was a certain price that was guaranteed to communities.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN explained that there is a power sales                                                                  
agreement that is a 40-year agreement that was originally signed                                                                
with the construction of the dams and it has been a problem all                                                                 
along.  Senator Grevel, when he was attempting to purchase this, it                                                             
became obvious that he would have to break that power sales                                                                     
agreement to make his agreement work, and that is why HCR 10 is                                                                 
directing Alaska Energy Authority (AEA) to go out into the                                                                      
community to negotiate.  He said that there are a lot of                                                                        
liabilities the state of Alaska has with the four dams, and he                                                                  
would like to see the state get out of the liability.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1678                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES referred to line 12 of HCR 10, where it                                                                   
states, "WHEREAS the Alaska Energy Authority retains, under the                                                                 
power sales agreement, significant liabilities relating to the                                                                  
power project," but in the "resolves" it is not mentions.  He                                                                   
wondered if it is Representative Austerman's intent to continue to                                                              
honor the power sales agreement.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated that the intent is that the state                                                               
of Alaska get out of the agreement all together; The AEA sell the                                                               
four dams as a consortium or individually to each community.  The                                                               
best thing that could happen is for the Four Dam Pool to become the                                                             
Four Dam Pool Inc. and buy the facilities and everything from the                                                               
state of Alaska.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1620                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES wondered if the power sales agreement is a                                                                
commitment to the consumers in that area; that the liability being                                                              
referred to is the state's contract with the consumers in the                                                                   
region, which means that there would have to be some concurrence by                                                             
those consumers.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN replied correct.  He indicated that he                                                                 
would have to have someone that has been more directly involved                                                                 
with the sales agreement in order to provide a definite answer on                                                               
how they would address that issue.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated that it seems that the sale of the Four                                                             
Dam Pool would have to be an all or nothing thing, as opposed to                                                                
one at a time.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated that he believes the AEA cannot                                                                 
divest one unit without all four units agreeing to it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1534                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if the utilities being serviced by the                                                              
Four Dam Pool have a first right of refusal.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN replied that he does not know and would                                                                
have to defer to one of the utilities themselves.  He said that he                                                              
does know all four units could be sold individually if they all                                                                 
agree.  The divestiture and the power sales agreement have been the                                                             
biggest problem with why the Four Dam Pool has not sold in the                                                                  
past; if there is an outside entity they don't want to except the                                                               
power sales agreement and everything else tied to it.  Later on                                                                 
when the income stream was set up and divided it up there was                                                                   
nothing in the agreement that protected the state, but did protect                                                              
all the utilities.  There is a self-help clause within the whole                                                                
thing; if the state doesn't come up with general funds to prepare                                                               
the dams then they have there self-help clause and they can take                                                                
their income stream that is being divided up and make the repairs.                                                              
He added that the problems that existed when this agreement was set                                                             
up are being worked out now.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ED KOZAK, General Manager, Kodiak Electric Association (KEA),                                                                   
testified via teleconference from Kodiak.  He stated that KEA is a                                                              
member-owned non-profit cooperative that has provided service to                                                                
Kodiak and the village of Port Lions for 57 years.  The KEA Board                                                               
of Directors and management staff strongly support HCR 10.  They                                                                
believe that it is through the sale of the Four Dam Pool that long                                                              
term economic strength is promoted in their utilities in the                                                                    
community.  He asked, "Why should we support ownership?"  He said                                                               
that first, significant opportunities for rate reductions, cost                                                                 
control, reliability and protection of service are there with                                                                   
utility ownership.  There is the potential for increased economic                                                               
development opportunity in the community with local control and                                                                 
decision making authority.  The personnel knowledge and training                                                                
necessary to keep the project well maintained is already in place.                                                              
He said that they feel it is critically important with the isolated                                                             
stand-alone electric utilities that are in the Four Dam Pool.                                                                   
Electric utilities served by the Four Dam Pool are either a                                                                     
cooperative or a municipal, which means that 100 percent of the                                                                 
savings will remain with the people in the state of Alaska.  In                                                                 
example, over $3 million in capital credits have been returned by                                                               
KEA to its members over the last three years.  He added that the                                                                
Kodiak Chamber of Commerce and the City of Port Lions have both                                                                 
passed resolutions in support of local ownership.  He indicated                                                                 
that the state has divested boat harbors and roads to the local                                                                 
communities; therefore, it makes perfect sense to divest the Four                                                               
Dam Pool to the local communities as well.  It is their belief that                                                             
local ownership of the projects will result in rate reductions at                                                               
the retail levels and the sale of the projects to the utilities                                                                 
will provide a stable economic base in all eight communities that                                                               
are served by the projects, which will result in a stronger state                                                               
of Alaska.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1256                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER wondered whether or not the utilities in the                                                              
communities have the first right of refusal under the power sales                                                               
agreement.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. KOZAK replied that the power sales agreement is a 45-year                                                                   
agreement, in which, the state and five communities are signatory                                                               
to that agreement and all the utilities are contracted by that                                                                  
agreement to buy all of their energy from the projects that the                                                                 
serve the community.  He added that he believes the answer to                                                                   
Representative Porter's question is yes.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1219                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON pointed out that it may be true.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES wondered if one of the communities was not in                                                             
favor of the implied change in the contract if they would have a                                                                
veto power.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KOZAK responded that any change in the power sales agreement                                                                
has to be agreed to by all the parties that signed the agreement.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BOB EVANS, Copper Valley Electric Association, Four Dam Pool,                                                                   
stated that he believes he is hearing two questions; Representative                                                             
Davies is responding to a question that deals with the power sales                                                              
agreement and the right of each community to be unanimous in their                                                              
decision making and Representative Porter is asking whether or not                                                              
the communities have the first right of refusal of the sale of the                                                              
projects.  The questions merge in some respects.  If there is going                                                             
to be a sale of the projects, ultimately it is going to require the                                                             
approval from each of the communities to give up the power sales                                                                
agreement.  The reality is in the municipalities; it is going to                                                                
require a vote of the people.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1070                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD TRIMBLE, Alternate Representative, Project Management                                                                   
Committee, Four Dam Pool and Power Project Manager, Ketchikan                                                                   
Public Utilities (KPU), testified via teleconference from                                                                       
Ketchikan.  He stated that Ketichikan has consistently supported a                                                              
divestiture of the Four Dam Pool facilities to the purchasing                                                                   
utilities.  He indicated that KPU has worked hard to craft an                                                                   
agreement that works for both the Four Dam Pool communities and the                                                             
state.  They feel that HCR 10 seeks to accomplish this objective.                                                               
On the other hand, they do not support the concept of selling the                                                               
facilities under a general RFP, because they do not believe the                                                                 
Four Dam Pool communities or the state of Alaska will be best                                                                   
served through that process.  He asked will the RFP process bring                                                               
a higher price for the Four Dam Pool?  He said that it won't bring                                                              
a better price from the purchasing utility.  He pointed out that                                                                
they are not in a good position to respond to an open RFP.  He                                                                  
asked will a RFP bring a higher price for the Four Dam Pool from a                                                              
private enterprise?  He responded that is possible, but in the long                                                             
run it is a losing proposition for the state.  The risks that were                                                              
jointly evaluated by the communities and the state during the                                                                   
vestiture negotiations are real.  The communities have been prudent                                                             
in their evaluation of that risk, because they recognize that they                                                              
will bear them for decades to come.  He said that it will be the                                                                
communities and the state who will be left holding the bag when the                                                             
risks do materialize and the venture fails; therefore, relieving                                                                
the state of the liabilities is a vestiture to the Four Dam Pool.                                                               
He indicated that they are ready to proceed; however, they do not                                                               
support an RFP process.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0890                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER explained that in his reading of the                                                                      
"RESOLVE" in HCR 10, the only divestiture that would be available                                                               
would be to the individual communities or a consortium of the                                                                   
community; there is no opportunity for an outside proposer under                                                                
the RFP.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. EVANS pointed out that if there was an RFP and a higher bidder,                                                             
other than one of the communities, each community would have to                                                                 
approve the third party purchaser to take control of the power                                                                  
sales agreement.  If the communities chose not to, presumably the                                                               
state could still sale the property, but they would also retain the                                                             
risk under the power sales agreement; therefore, without the                                                                    
approval of the communities the state cannot assign the risk under                                                              
the power sales agreement.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0802                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said that he is assuming the permission would                                                             
not be given, so the opportunity of an outside purchaser is mute.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES pointed out that he did not read the                                                                      
"RESOLVE" in HCR 10 as Representative Porter did; it states that                                                                
the request for proposals for the sale of the power projects is                                                                 
open to the electric utilities in the communities.  It does not say                                                             
that it is open only to them; therefore, a third party could                                                                    
respond to the RFP.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON said that is why the question of whether or not                                                                 
they have the first right of refusal came up.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that it should be clear in HCR 10                                                                
whether it does or does not.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0742                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. EVANS indicated that the Four Dam Pool communities want HCR 10                                                              
to reflect that they are the sole purchasers of these projects.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to adopt a conceptual                                                                       
amendment, "on line 5, page 2, after the word 'open' you would say                                                              
'only'."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES wondered, if it is open only to the electric                                                              
utilities in the communities, then why would a RFP be used.  He                                                                 
asked isn't it then a negotiated sale?  He said maybe the line                                                                  
should read, "divest itself of its interest in the Four Dam Pool                                                                
power projects - preparing a request for proposals for the sale, by                                                             
negotiating a sale of the power projects to those utilities."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ wondered if it would only be the utilities                                                             
themselves that could make the purchase; the communities themselves                                                             
would be precluded from doing so.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0610                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN explained that the issue of whether a                                                                  
consortium of all the Four Dam Pools buy them or a consortium of                                                                
two of them or if they individually buy them could produce three                                                                
different RFPs.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ stated that the language presently in HCR
10 would necessitate that the utility would make the bid and                                                                    
ultimately the purchase.  There might be a different mechanism that                                                             
the community would want to employ rather than the direct sale to                                                               
the utility itself.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said that even though some of the utilities                                                               
are owned by municipalities and some are cooperative, they're made                                                              
of the same ingredients.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed his concern with regards to output,                                                              
gigawatts per year, because on line 8 of HCR 10 it states, "the                                                                 
state receives a fair market value for the power projects."  What                                                               
if, for example, the smallest project, Solomon Gulch, had an                                                                    
accounting process that tells the state what would be a good price                                                              
and they find out it is 1.5 times the best possible bid.  He                                                                    
wondered if it would kill the whole deal or if everyone in the                                                                  
group would agree on buying three and leaving one to the state.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated that the power sales agreement                                                                  
would preclude that from happening, because they all have to agree.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN interjected that they might all agree, but                                                                 
they might not want to come up with that kind of money; therefore,                                                              
they might agree on three being sold, but also agree that one is                                                                
priced too high.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0385                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said that if that were the case there                                                                  
would not be agreement among all of them.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ pointed out that HCR 10 is not suppose to                                                              
dictate the terms of the sale, but just ask that some steps be                                                                  
taken to move towards a sale.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. EVANS agreed.  He said that HCR 10 is simply asking the AEA to                                                              
come to the table and come up with a price.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG requested clarification on whether the AEA                                                              
had been instructed that an appraisal be done to determine fair                                                                 
market value.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. EVANS indicated that a study has already been done on risk                                                                  
assessment.  There are probably many approaches or concepts by                                                                  
which to come to some kind of evaluation.  He expects that the AEA                                                              
and the communities, during the interim, will attempt to find some                                                              
basis that is acceptable to the legislature.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that the term, "fair market                                                                 
value," implies that some type of appraisal would be done.  He                                                                  
wondered if the mechanism should be implicit or explicit in the                                                                 
resolution.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN responded that the AEA has the                                                                         
responsibility and he has no doubt that they will do what they are                                                              
required to do with regards to do-diligence.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG wondered if there should be legislative                                                                 
approval of any transaction.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. EVANS explained that when negotiations began a couple of years                                                              
ago the Governor's office issued a letter and set up certain                                                                    
standards before any approval of a sale could happen.  The most                                                                 
important one was there would be no sale short of legislative                                                                   
approval.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0059                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection to the proposed                                                                
amendment, "on line 5, page 2, after the word 'open' you would say                                                              
'only'."  There being no objection, the amendment was adopted.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0005                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move CSHCR 10 (URS) out of                                                               
committee with individual recommendation.  There being no                                                                       
objection, CSHCR 10 (URS) moved from the House Special Committee on                                                             
Utility Restructuring.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 174 - ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-20, SIDE A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced that the next order of business was House                                                             
Bill No. 174, "An Act relating to personal services contracts for                                                               
certain employees of electric cooperatives."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD BURKE, Legislative Administrative Assistant for                                                                          
Representative Sanders, Alaska State Legislature, read the sponsor                                                              
statement into the record:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Good public policy dictates that those who are elected by the                                                              
     constituency have the right and the responsibility to                                                                      
     implement their own perspective and agenda on the operational                                                              
     management of the organization they were elected to by                                                                     
     selecting and hiring paid staff of their own chosing.  This                                                                
     holds true with the President of the United States, the                                                                    
     Governor, and on down through the ranks of municipal forms of                                                              
     government.  In each case the elected executives are granted                                                               
     the authority to select staff they have confidence will                                                                    
     implement the agenda favored by the elected official.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     When first organized under the Rural Electric Association                                                                  
     [REA], Alaska Cooperatives were beholden to this policy by a                                                               
     mandate from REA that dictated no General Manager's contract                                                               
     should exceed three years, the typical term of the elected                                                                 
     boards of director of cooperatives.  Since the abolition of                                                                
     REA, there is no official policy on the records to reinforce                                                               
     this traditional limit on cooperative executives' contracts.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Indeed, since the demise of REA, we have seen the                                                                          
     implementation of at least one utility cooperative General                                                                 
     Manager contract that essentially grants a perpetual term                                                                  
     through a unique automatic renewal clause that requires the                                                                
     Board to take affirmative action to negate the automatic                                                                   
     renewal of the contract for another year on a five year term.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     In the case cited above, if a new board of directors wished to                                                             
     terminate the current General Manager's contract, they could                                                               
     find themselves obligated to in effect buy-out the remainder                                                               
     of the term of the contract.  With current utility managers                                                                
     salaries and benefit packages reaching the $200,000 a year                                                                 
     level, this could mean up to one million dollars, a figure                                                                 
     most rural electric cooperatives would find staggering.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0360                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked who is supporting HB 174.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURKE indicated that it was done by request.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked who requested it.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0385                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURKE stated that the lobbyist Mich Gravvo(ph) talked to his                                                                
boss and requested the bill.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if Mr. Burke knew for who the bill                                                                
was requested.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURKE replied no.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER indicated that they may want to take a look                                                               
at the wording, because it may not be precluding what it is                                                                     
desiring to preclude.  It just states that the term of a contract                                                               
may not exceed 12 months.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURKE stated that he believes the situation currently is that                                                               
a general manager can be extended if the board does nothing.  HB
174 would limit that, so the board could only do nothing one time,                                                              
which would extend that contract for one year.  After that, HB 174                                                              
would force them to send it back to the members of the cooperative                                                              
to vote on that person.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said that he doesn't doubt that is the                                                                    
intent, but he is concerned about the wording accomplishing that                                                                
intent.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0540                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD stated that they are unanimously against the bill.  They                                                              
feel that it is regressive, it does not give boards of directors                                                                
the ability to attract good management to their utilities and it                                                                
imports a level of micro-management.  He indicated that when a                                                                  
contract runs out, it runs out.  That general management no longer                                                              
has an obligation to serve that utility, nor does a utility have an                                                             
obligation to that general manager.  He has not seen contracts for                                                              
general managers that automatically re-up if the board of directors                                                             
does not take an affirmative action.  Also there was an allusion to                                                             
the fact that the REA no longer requires contracts limited to 36                                                                
months, and it is true that they do no longer require that, because                                                             
they stepped out of the business of trying to micro-manage general                                                              
contracts.  He added that as a general bill it is best left up to                                                               
the local boards of directors to take care of, and in the event                                                                 
they are not acting well on behalf of their constituents they are                                                               
subject to recall or a revote.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON adjourned the House Special Committee on Utility                                                                
Restructuring at 9:50 a.m.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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